Comments on Italian Mother Syndrome: How I responded to an atheist I love

To adjust part of Darksmiles post for me: I find g...

2011-10-17T15:25:33.707-04:00

To adjust part of Darksmiles post for me:
I find great joy in [being Catholic], in freedom to question, to think for myself, in duty to care for all without narrowing my focus through blind adherence to one way or another, in the elegant beauty of Nature, in science and math, strong grounding in that which I have good reason and evidence to believe.

Spiritual journeys are individual. My religious beliefs are shared, but not as a drone believing what I'm told, but rather as a free thinker trying to make sense of it all and bringing that with me to the table when I worship.

One thing I've learned, though, is that just because I don't understand something doesn't mean it isn't true. I've also learned that Truth happens at many levels, the most profound and meaningful of which are entirely subjective and don't hold up well to empirical analysis. This has actually sparked my appreciation for art and art history. There are messages being conveyed that are terrificly complex in the simplest of designs. Many aspects of art can be categorized and even measured, but the heart of the matters comes to a feeling in the gut about what calls to you and what doesn't.

That I am, myself, a powerful and purposeful being is true, but there are powers way more formidable than anything I can muster in the cosmos. Undeniably, there are forces in the physical world that I cannot withstand. Many I can adapt for biologically and intellectually, but never fully overcome. There are social and political forces for which I can exert influence, but which also may overwhelm me. There are interpersonal forces for which, at best, I can account for half the power at work. By extension (or maybe in sum, as a collective?) is it really strange to suggest there are spiritual forces upon which I have a limited influence?

As I gain more and more experience living, I find more and more practical answers to difficult questions from distinctly religious sources. While in a literal sense there seems to be a lot of rigidity in various constructs, when taken as metaphors, there's a lot of wisdom in it that goes a long way to explain things that tend to defy explanation.

Furthermore, as I learn more and more about how the brain works and what happens in human development, the more I see that there's nothing new there, just a better understanding of mechanics.

Former Lutheran, now athiest here. Thank you so m...

2011-09-21T09:58:17.085-04:00

Former Lutheran, now athiest here.

Thank you so much for showing that not all Christians handle situations like this poorly. I'm glad to hear that there are other people out there who can be on opposing sides of the entire religion debate and yet be the best of friends. I do believe in many of the morals taught by religion, and I think that we all need to be able to look past that difference of thought and be able to enjoy each other's company if we so desire.

I have no idea how any of my Christian friends are going to react when I someday inevitably tell them that I have left my religion behind, but I certainly hope they handle it as well as you have.

I really appreciate this post. There really should...

2011-09-16T05:51:07.567-04:00

I really appreciate this post. There really should be more thoughtful people in the world. You at least took time to understand and talk it through with your brother. Kudos. What it comes down to is really the arguing should stop, there should be a mutual understanding and respect for other beliefs/ideas. Thank you for posting this....be well. Keep rockin'.

Cool post, I wish more people were at least honest...

2011-09-16T00:38:26.004-04:00

Cool post, I wish more people were at least honest with themselves like that.

I'm very glad I got out of religion but I'm sure it works for some people :)

Take care.

At least a compassionate unbeliever is better than...

2011-09-15T20:02:44.752-04:00

At least a compassionate unbeliever is better than a hypocritical believer, aka "The good Samaritan story". The sad news is that the temple could continue discourage genuine worshippers from coming in. The good news is that Jesus called his disciples and made fellowship with them OUTSIDE!

Much love from an anonymous atheist. I hope you t...

2011-09-15T18:10:38.608-04:00

Much love from an anonymous atheist.

I hope you two continue to get along.

This is a wonderful post. I grew up with a lot of...

2011-09-15T14:54:15.562-04:00

This is a wonderful post. I grew up with a lot of faith. I really wanted to be the best person I could be. Eventually it dawned on me that I could be good with my faith just as much as I could without it. I'm just as happy today as I was back then if not more. She helped...

http://www.ted.com/talks/julia_sweeney_on_letting_go_of_god.html

Julia, It's hard to predict exactly how they&...

2011-09-15T14:53:37.127-04:00

Julia,

It's hard to predict exactly how they'll react. I don't think they'll disown me or anything, but it definitely won't be good. I have a very good relationship with them right now, and even in the best case it will probably cause a lot of tension. I think they'll feel that by rejecting their religion, I've rejected an integral part of them.

Thanks for your concern, and again for your acceptance of opposing views.

—Tim

I love this post so much.

2011-09-15T13:10:56.228-04:00

I love this post so much.

How much more beautiful and meaningful is it that ...

2011-09-15T12:05:08.412-04:00

How much more beautiful and meaningful is it that it took BILLIONS of years to create YOU from a very specific and circumstantial set of events, then as a selfish deities after thought? The Universe does not demand that you love and worship it in order to be worth anything.

Beautiful post, thank you for those words and for ...

2011-09-15T11:18:31.162-04:00

Beautiful post, thank you for those words and for being so honest about your emotions. If there were more people like you then labels such as 'atheist' and 'theist' wouldn't be needed. All that matters is that it is good to be good.

Also, thank you for your patience. This is a controversial subject and it's guaranteed to draw out a few people. When they speak harsh words it's often just their own insecurities that are speaking so please forgive those less tolerant than yourself.

SW of London

I think I'm different from most atheists in th...

2011-09-15T10:54:09.901-04:00

I think I'm different from most atheists in that I never was a believer; indeed, I didn't even really start to understand that people really did believe in various forms of theism until my early teens. Up 'til then I always figured people who went to church were just engaged in some sort of traditional ritual, like celebrating an anniversary (though at the time I couldn't have articulated that).

On the burden of proof thing, remember that atheism makes no claims - it's not a positive claim that no gods exist, it's just the absence of a positive claim that one or more gods do exist. A person who's never heard of the concept of deity is as much a atheist as someone who shouts from the rooftops that he knows for certain there are no deities. They're just different kinds of atheists (just as monotheists, polytheists, etc. are different kinds of theists). There's a good piece here that does a good job of explaining the idea (better than I just did):
http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/

Ultimately, though, whatever you believe or don't believe, no matter how the idea of belief is utterly alien and baffling to me, one thing that makes perfect sense is kindness, and it's clear that you have and demonstrate that in abundance.

I agree with others here, your brother is lucky to...

2011-09-15T10:27:26.635-04:00

I agree with others here, your brother is lucky to have such a caring, kind, honest sister. No condescending attitude or belittling or misrepresenting the atheist position (as far as I can tell).

Consider: There is no fear without a god. (at least no fear of hell or loss of holiness.) We all want to think others can see the value in the way we see things. It validates ourselves like nothing else. Don't you think accepting the world based on provable facts would bring much more joy than what you have now? I encourage you to question and examine thoroughly your fears. If you seek truth and knowledge, ignorance and fear fall away. Good luck! You deserve to be free of fear and be truly happy.

This was a nice read. As a materialist (and unli...

2011-09-15T08:52:20.872-04:00

This was a nice read.

As a materialist (and unlike many, even most materialists) I share your fear/horror at the prospect of nothing. Trying to imagine my own consciousness end or fade away or whatever hurts my brain and scares the shit out of me. Seriously, I wish I could have faith in an afterlife, even the hell that would await me by most interpretations of the Christian bible.

Very honest of you to say you believe because you ...

2011-09-15T03:21:25.094-04:00

Very honest of you to say you believe because you want to. Many people will say they believe because god should be self evident and he has revealed himself through scripture etc. More often than not, people say you should believe because they SHOULD believe in the same thing they do.

I think you could be more agnostic than you think and that you have a tipping point brewing up. Watch Lawrence Krauss for a poetic version of our existence (he says stars had to 'die' to create the elements that make up our bodies) and perhaps you will find a way to make peace with yourself and remove the fear that you hold.

This is not to say Atheists are any less fearful but you might find some peace in the truth.

Thanks for your post. It was a nice read.

believing because you want to? well that goes for ...

2011-09-15T02:44:05.048-04:00

believing because you want to? well that goes for most people even dough not a single religion is true in my eyes.
I find optimism to be something that some people need. then i m talking about people greatly affected by emotion and need to feel like a good soul is watching over them.
but i still would recommend realism for some stuff because having the bible as a life-manual to be followed by every step is never a good thing and don't forget it's written thousands of years ago.

and btw if you think that the meaning of life is important...
i believe that one thing that Atheism and Christianity has in common is free will. only you can truly control your life dough others can shape it.
whats most important is that you enjoy your life. You are truly a person that deserves a lot of respect.

sincerely by an Atheist

From an atheist: thank you. It is much easier to o...

2011-09-15T02:10:02.165-04:00

From an atheist: thank you. It is much easier to offer respect where respect is given in kind. I do not believe as you do, but I'm happy to live alongside you, knowing you're prepared to let me live in peace.

you likely have no idea how difficult it can be fo...

2011-09-15T02:05:05.240-04:00

you likely have no idea how difficult it can be for an atheist to "come out of the closet" in a christian family.

thank you. thank you for being so understanding. your brother is lucky to have you. i wish i had had someone like you in my corner when i did the same.

Wow, what a beautiful post. As a former Christian ...

2011-09-15T01:07:32.425-04:00

Wow, what a beautiful post.
As a former Christian who grew up in a Christian household, I really applaud you.

I don't believe in atheists (though I thought ...

2011-09-15T00:33:16.934-04:00

I don't believe in atheists (though I thought I was one at one point). I think they know God, but just don't call it God. They see the universe in all it's vast wonder, but just have different names for it.

God communicates to all of us in our own way. As long as a person tries to listen, they will hear what they need to hear. Truth is such an ambiguous concept, all of us have our own individual truth.

I really envy you. At a time when I was really sic...

2011-09-14T23:49:43.345-04:00

I really envy you.
At a time when I was really sick and life was hell, I really wanted to believe. I visited multiple churches and tried my best convince myself to believe but in the end I couldn't.
I wish I could experience the comfort that comes with belief in an afterlife. It's terrifying for me to believe that there is nothing after this life.
If I had a choice, I wish I could believe. It wouldn't even matter if I were right or wrong because I would at least be released from some anxiety when thinking about death.

Julia: All is well. I can't really complain ab...

2011-09-14T23:34:58.105-04:00

Julia: All is well. I can't really complain about being too busy with a job I enjoy... but sometimes the "too busy" part gets annoying. It's loads better than not having a job after all.

You on the other hand seem to have the patience/tolerance of a saint. Some of the comments on this post... blah.

I intentionally didn't say where I fell on the matter in my original comment, but having read the other comments I want to throw it out there now.

I'm an agnostic who isn't really sure if the question about the existence of God(s) even matters. Would the answer change my actions? I don't think they would because my actions are bound by my morals, which exist independent of my knowledge of God(s). If God(s) do(es) exit, I don't think they would judge two people to took the same actions - one who believed in them, and one who didn't know or care - differently.

So I'm an agnostic... and I don't really care one way or another if God(s) exist. I don't worry about it. That not worrying extends to other questions like "What happens after someone dies?" "Do we have a soul?" and others whose answers are inextricably linked to the root question of the existence of God(s).

FYI, your brother posted a link to your blog to a ...

2011-09-14T22:38:44.741-04:00

FYI, your brother posted a link to your blog to a popular atheist message board, so you're going to be inundated with atheist spam. Fair warning ...

I'm curious why she believes in the specific d...

2011-09-14T22:35:03.021-04:00

I'm curious why she believes in the specific deity. She references the deity by using "god" as a proper name, with capitalization, which is something I've only ever seen Christians do, presumptuous as always, so I'm assuming she believes the god of Abraham to be the real one, out of all the thousands of others people have worshiped throughout history. Why? Why doesn't she pray to Vishnu? Has she ever thought that all the reasons she would use to discount Greek Mythology, old religions from Egypt, Native American spiritualism, and Hinduism... would work against her own religion?

About the presumptuous thing, what I meant was, if a Hindu read this blog entry, and he sees the word "God", which god should he be thinking about? Why do Christians act like they own this general word, instead of referring to their deity by name? Yahweh, Elohim, I AM, Jealous, YHWH, etc.

You've brought happy tears to my eyes. I'm...

2011-09-14T22:30:53.190-04:00

You've brought happy tears to my eyes. I'm an atheist from a very religious family. I'm sharing your wisdom with them so that hopefully I can finally have a conversation with them that doesn't end in shouting and tears. (Aside from my mom. She's awesome like you.)